Discussion-Rock-n-roll vs "Rock"

[SAT-I need more room!!]

I have a trivia question up and I asked about 3 artists in "Rock" history. Pete got one third of the question right, but mentioned that Pat Boone isn't really rock.

Pete is definately not the first person to point out a difference between pop or rock and roll and Rock.

I knew a guy who said "Rock" did not begin with Elvis or the Beatles, it began with Black Sabbath. He later explained the former two were "Rock and Roll".

I have heard other people call hard rock "Rock" as opposed to Rock and Roll.

I, on the other hand, call anything that charted during the Rock and Roll era, Rock and Roll. Barry Manilow? Rock and Roll. Carpenters? Rock and Roll. Barbara Streisand? Rock and Roll.

Ok, wait. I know they are NOT Rock and Roll, but if I am discussing something pertaining to the Rock and Roll era, I will mention them, much like Whitburn does.

And as far as the term "Rock", I personally never separated it from Rock and Roll, although I know many people do.

So then the question goes, what is Rock and what is Rock and Roll? CSN-Rock or Rock and Roll? Simon & Garfunkel? Eagles? Fleetwood Mac?


Anyway, your feeling please......

[Pete70s]

SAT-Laney's said:

I have a trivia question up and I asked about 3 artists in "Rock" history. Pete got one third of the question right, but mentioned that Pat Boone isn't really rock.

Pete is definately not the first person to point out a difference between pop or rock and roll and Rock.

I knew a guy who said "Rock" did not begin with Elvis or the Beatles, it began with Black Sabbath. He later explained the former two were "Rock and Roll".

I have heard other people call hard rock "Rock" as opposed to Rock and Roll.

I, on the other hand, call anything that charted during the Rock and Roll era, Rock and Roll. Barry Manilow? Rock and Roll. Carpenters? Rock and Roll. Barbara Streisand? Rock and Roll.

Ok, wait. I know they are NOT Rock and Roll, but if I am discussing something pertaining to the Rock and Roll era, I will mention them, much like Whitburn does.

And as far as the term "Rock", I personally never separated it from Rock and Roll, although I know many people do.

So then the question goes, what is Rock and what is Rock and Roll? CSN-Rock or Rock and Roll? Simon & Garfunkel? Eagles? Fleetwood Mac?


Anyway, your feeling please......

Well, Pat Boone DID cover rock songs, so I guess there's SOME argument there.. Plus, he did a "metal" album, LOL!

It's weird, I consider CSN to be "Rock", but I wouldn't exactly consider Andy Williams to be "rock", and they were both top-40 artists..

I guess it has something to do with how much of a "rock" influence can be heard in their music, and what audience they were appealing to.

Ray Charles? SURE! But The Ray Charles Singers? Probably not... (different person, by the way..)

But you have a good point there... When does "Rock 'n Roll" end and "Rock" begin? When I was growing up, I heard the term "Rock 'n Roll" a lot, but we always just called it "Rock".

I always thought of the early RnR songs from the 50's when I thought of the term "Rock 'n Roll". I remember reading an interview with Metallica's Kirk Hammett in the late 80's, and he referred to Metallica's music as "Kick-ass Rock 'n Roll". Something about that just did NOT sound right to me...
#nosmileys

[SAT-I need more room!!]

Pete70s said:

Well, Pat Boone DID cover rock songs, so I guess there's SOME argument there.. Plus, he did a "metal" album, LOL!

It's weird, I consider CSN to be "Rock", but I wouldn't exactly consider Andy Williams to be "rock", and they were both top-40 artists..

I guess it has something to do with how much of a "rock" influence can be heard in their music, and what audience they were appealing to.

Ray Charles? SURE! But The Ray Charles Singers? Probably not... (different person, by the way..)

But you have a good point there... When does "Rock 'n Roll" end and "Rock" begin? When I was growing up, I heard the term "Rock 'n Roll" a lot, but we always just called it "Rock".

I always thought of the early RnR songs from the 50's when I thought of the term "Rock 'n Roll". I remember reading an interview with Metallica's Kirk Hammett in the late 80's, and he referred to Metallica's music as "Kick-ass Rock 'n Roll". Something about that just did NOT sound right to me...

See that's the whole thing to me, I never thought of it as being two separate eras. I mean, if CSN is Rock, aren't the Beatles? Or are they just "Pop"?

I get your Andy Williams point, much like the lightweight artists I mentioned. Mostly because you can hear the Carpenters on the same stations as Sinatra, Tony Bennett, etc.

But if I were listing "Great Top Ten Hits of the Rock-n-Roll Era", I'd have no qualms about listing Superstar by the Carpenters or Weekend in New England by Barry Manilow.

[Ken]

Good topic

I don't seperate it either , to me there is no difference between "Rock" or "Rock and Roll. " Wether you're talking about Little Richard and Buddy Holly or Huey Lewis and Jimi Hendrix. Like Pete mentioned growing up I as well as friends and family referred to it as both "Rock" and "Rock and Roll "

[Pete70s]

SAT-Laney's said:

See that's the whole thing to me, I never thought of it as being two separate eras. I mean, if CSN is Rock, aren't the Beatles? Or are they just "Pop"?

That's a good question... I would consider post Sgt. Pepper Beatles to be "rock", but pre-Pepper Beatles to be more in the "RnR/pop" category.

Come to think of it, I never considered the Beach Boys "rock" in a classic rock sense. They're more "RnR/Pop" as well..

Maybe it has to do with where the "oldies" end and "classic rock" begins. Though oldies stations are playing more 70's rock like BTO now, making the distinction more difficult.

[SAT-I need more room!!]

Pete70s said:

That's a good question... I would consider post Sgt. Pepper Beatles to be "rock", but pre-Pepper Beatles to be more in the "RnR/pop" category.

Come to think of it, I never considered the Beach Boys "rock" in a classic rock sense. They're more "RnR/Pop" as well..

Maybe it has to do with where the "oldies" end and "classic rock" begins. Though oldies stations are playing more 70's rock like BTO now, making the distinction more difficult.

I understand your post-Peppers thing. Which is probably why the "Rock" station here will OCCASIONALLY play Get Back or While My Guitar, but you never hear We Can Work it Out or Drive My Car.

But then, is Get Off My Cloud or As Tears Go By or Satisfaction pop or rock?

And the interesting thing is, the other station I always mention here, that plays Bread, Seals and Crofts, Grass Roots, Lightfoot, Croce, Paul Revere, etc alongside typical classic rock like Who, Clapton, etc, call themselves Timeless ROCK. Not Timeless Rock and Roll or anything else.

[Ken]

SAT-Laney's said:

I understand your post-Peppers thing. Which is probably why the "Rock" station here will OCCASIONALLY play Get Back or While My Guitar, but you never hear We Can Work it Out or Drive My Car.

But then, is Get Off My Cloud or As Tears Go By or Satisfaction pop or rock?

And the interesting thing is, the other station I always mention here, that plays Bread, Seals and Crofts, Grass Roots, Lightfoot, Croce, Paul Revere, etc alongside typical classic rock like Who, Clapton, etc, call themselves Timeless ROCK. Not Timeless Rock and Roll or anything else.

I remember posting a topic either on YL or here very early on about what the difference was between "Classic Rock " stations and "oldies" radio stations.

I think there is a real fine line between the two way more than there used to be . I mean my oldies station at times plays as much 70's material as my classic rock station does.

[SAT-I need more room!!]

Ken said:

I remember posting a topic either on YL or here very early on about what the difference was between "Classic Rock " stations and "oldies" radio stations.

I think there is a real fine line between the two way more than there used to be . I mean my oldies station at times plays as much 70's material as my classic rock station does.

Right, and with the Timeless Rock station, the line is even thinner since they have picked up the other oldie acts like Turtles, Paul Revere, 3 Dogs, Monkees, Beach Boys, etc, that Classic Rock really didn't play.

[lora]

I'm certainly not one to comment on rock-n-roll considering my major musical influences. LOL. But what I think about this is really similar to some of your opinions. I myself label, quote, oldies as rock-n-roll. Mainly anything from Eddie Cochran, Chuck Berry and Elvis to the end of the Motown era. From there, it's either pop or rock. And how you divide that up, to me, has nothing to do with the time period. It's all in the style of the music. Lighter music I would definitely call pop, while medium to heavy is rock.

I see a lot of mentions of the Beatles. I think they can be divided up both ways actually. Their early Invasion stuff is more pop, while some of their later music was somewhat darker in sound and therefore construed as rock.

And Pat Boone? If you can call that music, it's pop for sure.

[55dodger]

Rock & Roll to me is the music from the 50s & early 60s. Part of this is from being stationed in England. They call everything from the 50s & early 60s rock & roll.

To me, Rock music is the kind of music that when played, causes your hand to reach for the volume knob and crank it to the right. You have to play it loud, and you have no control over it. Kind of like the old Outer Limits TV show (We control the volume).

Pop music on the other hand, is music that even your mother liked. Nice and easy music. Some good, some bad, but always played at a respectable volume.

As far as Fleetwood Mac, Eagles, and Crosby, Stills, & Nash are concerned, they are "rock" bands, but Simon & Garfunkel would be Pop.

[Laura--I wuv u all :)]

Why don't we just call it all "music" and leave it at that?

[djdave]

If it's EVER made the "pop" chart, it's simply pop (Doris Day, Little Richard, Fabian, Crystals, Vic Dana, Procol Harum, Main Ingredient, Osmonds, Tavares, Kajagoogoo, Whitney Houston, Real McCoy, Train, Jay-Z Hilary Duff, you name it), regardless. But...
To me "rock and roll" is more a 1954-1963 term for the "harder" side of the pop music scene.

And "rock" pertains ROUGHLY to songs of either a "classic rock" nature (about 1964-1990) (Stones, Who, Floyd, Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, Tom Petty, even U2), a "metal"/"hair band" nature (Iron Maiden, Motley Crue, Tesla, Megadeth, Linkin Park, Slipknot) (about 1977 -present), or more "new wave"/modern, possibly "alternative" (Go-Go's, Duran Duran, Cure, Depeche Mode, Nirvana, Oasis, Deftones, White Stripes) (1977-present).

That's my $.02.

[KittyKat - RIP Luciano]

Laura--I said:

Why don't we just call it all "music" and leave it at that?

Here here!
I basically agree with Dave's comments. In general I classify stuff like Manilow, Carpernters, Streisand, even recent boy band stuff as Pop.
"Rock n Roll" is a term that I immediately associate with anything pre 65.
"Hard Rock" is a term that I usually use for the Zepellin, Sabbath, Judas Priest, Poison, metal acts.
And practically everything else that isn't jazz, or classical falls under "Rock" - From the Eagles to Boz Scaggs.

[SAT-I need more room!!]

KittyKat said:

Here here!
I basically agree with Dave's comments. In general I classify stuff like Manilow, Carpernters, Streisand, even recent boy band stuff as Pop.
"Rock n Roll" is a term that I immediately associate with anything pre 65.
"Hard Rock" is a term that I usually use for the Zepellin, Sabbath, Judas Priest, Poison, metal acts.
And practically everything else that isn't jazz, or classical falls under "Rock" - From the Eagles to Boz Scaggs.

Ok, so to you, Beatles would be Rock?