Jumping the Shark-Yes

[SAT-I need more room!!]

This is a hard one for me as I am such a fan of them. But they are a band that keeps putting out all new albums nearly 40 years into their career.

I know many people, including critics, say that the shark was jumped on Tales of the Topographic Oceans. After their wonderful (critically AND commercially) hat trick, they came out with the bombast of a 2 LP, 4 song set. And albums after that just did not measure up to the earlier hat trick. Relayer was average. Going For the One was good, but still not up to their early level.

Their next release after Going was Tormato which many consider bad. Rick Wakeman AND Jon Anderson left after this one, so they had a different singer on the follow up, Drama. So some could say the shark was jumped with Tormato (since Going For the One actually was well received).

But the definition of shark jumping is that it's something so bad that you can't go back. Well 90125 certainly took them higher than they had ever gone before. The album was huge and produced their only number 1 hit single.

Big Generator wasn't as great, but it was another case of Tusk following up Rumours.

A couple years later, 8 of the previous 12 members got together for a combined album. (Which isn't exactly true. The 90125 lineup, sans Jon Anderson, was making a new album at the same time Anderson, Bruford, Wakeman and Howe were recording their sophomore effort. Anderson put vocals on the 90125 lineup stuff and Chris Squire added background vocals and some bass to the ABWH stuff.) This had a couple good tracks.

The 90125 lineup recorded a follow up called Talk. I'm thinking this is where the shark was jumped. It was a too polished version of the not as good stuff from Big Generator.

After that, they got back with the "classic" lineup and recorded some stuff "old style", but the magic was pretty much gone.

So I'm sticking with 1994's Talk as being where the shark was jumped.


Whattya think?

[Pete70s]

Since I've never heard anything they've done since the 80's, I'm going to stick to the belief that "Tales From Topographic Oceans" was the jump. You could actually say that "Close To The Edge" was a pre-jump, as it contained their first side-long piece. However, THAT was interesting throughout, while "Tales" was not. And, I'll admit that they did good stuff from "Tormato" through "Big Generator", but it was very different from their early stuff.

[SAT-I need more room!!]

pete70s said:

Since I've never heard anything they've done since the 80's, I'm going to stick to the belief that "Tales From Topographic Oceans" was the jump. You could actually say that "Close To The Edge" was a pre-jump, as it contained their first side-long piece. However, THAT was interesting throughout, while "Tales" was not. And, I'll admit that they did good stuff from "Tormato" through "Big Generator", but it was very different from their early stuff.

True, it WAS very different. Trevor Rabin really signalled a change. It was like a totally different band. (In fact they WERE going to be a different band-Cinema-until Jon Anderson joined back up.)

But the arguement comes, how can the shark be jumped before 90125 when that was their biggest success?

[Pete70s]

sat said:

pete70s said:

Since I've never heard anything they've done since the 80's, I'm going to stick to the belief that "Tales From Topographic Oceans" was the jump. You could actually say that "Close To The Edge" was a pre-jump, as it contained their first side-long piece. However, THAT was interesting throughout, while "Tales" was not. And, I'll admit that they did good stuff from "Tormato" through "Big Generator", but it was very different from their early stuff.

True, it WAS very different. Trevor Rabin really signalled a change. It was like a totally different band. (In fact they WERE going to be a different band-Cinema-until Jon Anderson joined back up.)

But the arguement comes, how can the shark be jumped before 90125 when that was their biggest success?

Granted, it was a huge mainstream success, but it did alienate a lot of their old fan base who liked the prog stuff. Some could say they "sold out".

[SAT-I need more room!!]

pete70s said:

sat said:

True, it WAS very different. Trevor Rabin really signalled a change. It was like a totally different band. (In fact they WERE going to be a different band-Cinema-until Jon Anderson joined back up.)

But the arguement comes, how can the shark be jumped before 90125 when that was their biggest success?

Granted, it was a huge mainstream success, but it did alienate a lot of their old fan base who liked the prog stuff. Some could say they "sold out".

I guess it depends how you measure the shark jumping. Success or change. I love both lineups. Maybe Owner of a Lonely Heart was a sell out, but that's the weakest track on the album.

Even Garry Marshall pointed out that Happy Days was still very successful in the ratings after the actual shark jumping. But to many (myself included) think the show sucked then. So I guess it's how you look at it.....

[Pete70s]

sat said:

pete70s said:

Granted, it was a huge mainstream success, but it did alienate a lot of their old fan base who liked the prog stuff. Some could say they "sold out".

I guess it depends how you measure the shark jumping. Success or change. I love both lineups. Maybe Owner of a Lonely Heart was a sell out, but that's the weakest track on the album.

Even Garry Marshall pointed out that Happy Days was still very successful in the ratings after the actual shark jumping. But to many (myself included) think the show sucked then. So I guess it's how you look at it.....

I actually just requested a bunch of the new Yes remasters. I'll know more of their stuff in a week or so...

Yeah, I'm not a big Chachi fan either...

[Dawn]

I'm not that familiar with their material between Close to the Edge and 90125, but based on what I do know from them, I would say the shark was jumped after 90125. Although the songs I've heard from Big Generator are good, they didn't grab me the way the 90125 cuts did.

[Pete70s]

pete70s said:

I actually just requested a bunch of the new Yes remasters. I'll know more of their stuff in a week or so...

I just got the remasters of "Relayer", "Tales From Topographic Oceans" and "The Yes Album" (which I already know and love, just wanted the better sound. My original CD was the very first CD issue from the mid-80s).

I'm waiting on "Drama", "Tormato", "90125" and "Close To The Edge" (Same story as The Yes Album).

[njamateurguitar]

Tough one for me but I'd agree about after TALK. Still say though one of the best concerts I've seen (and I've seen a lot...) when they were in a theatre in the round with Howe and Rabin both on guitar!

[Pete70s]

I've gotten several of the new re-masters, and now I HAVE to say that "Drama" is their best work since "The Yes Album"!!!

[njamateurguitar]

Has Drama been remastered??? Any additional tunes? I've always loved that album but it was too short!!! Was my only complaint!

[Pete70s]

njamateurguitar said:

Has Drama been remastered??? Any additional tunes? I've always loved that album but it was too short!!! Was my only complaint!

Yes, and it sounds AWESOME remastered!! It has several bonus tracks, including the last tracks they did before Anderson and Wakeman left, with Roy Thomas Baker producing.

[SAT-I need more room!!]

pete70s said:

njamateurguitar said:

Has Drama been remastered??? Any additional tunes? I've always loved that album but it was too short!!! Was my only complaint!

Yes, and it sounds AWESOME remastered!! It has several bonus tracks, including the last tracks they did before Anderson and Wakeman left, with Roy Thomas Baker producing.

There's MORE bonus tracks than original album lineup! LOL!

[njamateurguitar]

Thanks so much!