"I Could've Been A Contender" 11/6/07

[Pete70s]

I've been meaning to do these guys for a while now:



The Turtles/Flo & Eddie

Why are these guys not in the Hall of Fame? The Byrds are in, The Lovin' Spoonful are in, but as of yet, The Turtles have yet to get in. Some of the most innovative, unique hit singles of the late 60's were done by the Turtles, yet they are SO poorly remembered.....

Originally a surf-rock group called The Crossfires, The Turtles broke nationally, like The Byrds, with a Dylan cover, "It Ain't Me Babe" (There's a hilarious story that when they met Dylan at a restaurant, he was either drunk or high and slurring his speech "You guys should record that 'It Ain't Me Babe'", before passing out face first into his plate of spaghetti. "Uh, Bob, we've already had a hit with it... Bob? Bob??")

The hits kept coming, culminating with their biggest, "Happy Together", and smashes "She'd Rather Be With Me", "Elenore", & "You Showed Me". Lesser known, more experimental sides like "You Know What I Mean" and "Sound Asleep" also scored high on the charts.

The Turtles ended in 1970, due to legal problems with their label, White Whale records. Mark Volman & Howard Kaylan would go on to sing back-up for many artists, including T-Rex and Bruce Springsteen. They would also become members of Frank Zappa's Mothers Of Invention in 1971. Unable to use their real names, due to the White Whale lawsuits (White Whale REALLY screwed them), they became The Phloreseant Leach & Eddie, later shortened to Flo & Eddie.

As a duo, they released several very good records during the 70's that went absolutely nowhere. "Goodbye Surprise", "Another Pop Stars Life", "Rebecca", "Keep It Warm", "Moving Targets", and "Illegal, Immoral & Fattening" were among their best work, issued on a now out-of-print CD called "The Best Of Flo & Eddie". However, the REAL gem worth seeking out is a three record set put out by Rhino in the mid-80's called "The History Of Flo & Eddie & The Turtles". You get all of the above mentioned songs, a few Turtles hits, even a Crossfires number.

But the best part is the third record, which features segments of The Flo & Eddie Radio Show, which aired in the early 70's. Here, you get to hear a drunken Ringo Starr say things like "Everyone in America is named Debbie" and "I've MET better carpets than you're laying on!" You also get to hear Harry Nilsson do an impersonation of Eddie Lawrence's "The Old Philosopher" ("...and a wild animal runs away with your shoes!").... The whole thing has to be heard to be believed..

Of course, there was a lot of humor in their stuff as well, some of which was pretty off-color and un-PC (the "Happy Together" guys? No way! ........Believe it!)

Able to use the Turtles name again, Volman & Kaylan continue to tour today, but WHEN are they gonna get in the Hall? Hopefully during MY lifetime....

[Dawn]

Pete, I couldn't agree more about these guys being deserving of the Hall. Unfortunately, with some of the questionable choices that have been inducted in recent years, it may be a while before we see it, but hopefully it will happen one day.

Funny story about Bob and the spaghetti!

Happy Together has always been a favorite of mine, as has You Showed Me (great instrumentation!). Another track of theirs I've always liked is She's My Girl, although it seems very forgotten these days, at least as far as oldies radio is concerned.

I hadn't known that Mark and Howard were in the Mothers of Invention - interesting! I haven't heard much of their '70s work - is it more of a pop style, or more experimental?

I remember seeing an ad for one of their tours last year. Next time they perform near me, I'll have to check out their show.

[Ken]

The Turtles are among my favorite 60's bands.I started collecting their 45's (and even a picture sleeve or two, back in the mid 80's.

Along with those tunes you already mentioned Pete, Outside Chance, You Baby , and the great album track She Always Leaves Me Laughing are also faves - there are so many.


I have a live bootleg CD a buddy gave me of Flo and Eddie from 1976 ( they were the opening act for Frank Zappa). It is very, very good and by the audience response - they were very well recieved.

[H2IZCOOL]

I've always liked these guys. They don't get the credit they desrve, and you never hear anything on oldies stations today except for Happy Together, which they overplay. They haven't been able to overplay it enough to get it off my top 250 though. You Know What I Mean is also in my top 250. - and their version of It Ain't Me Babe is my favorite among the three versions I know (the others being Johnny Cash and Spaghetti Face himself.) She's My Girl is also right up there.

I own a bunch of their White Whale 45s and their Greatest Hits album.

[dave910]

Yo Pete,

I also recall an obscure 45, "Guide for the Married Man", which was apparently the theme to a movie of the same name. I would love to own some Turtles or Flo & Eddie stuff on CD! Yes, they too deserve to be in the rock and roll hall of fame.

[H2IZCOOL]

dave910 said:

Yo Pete,

I also recall an obscure 45, "Guide for the Married Man", which was apparently the theme to a movie of the same name. I would love to own some Turtles or Flo & Eddie stuff on CD! Yes, they too deserve to be in the rock and roll hall of fame.

Yes, Dave, that was from the movie of the same name. I have that 45 also.

[Pete70s]

admin said:

Pete, I couldn't agree more about these guys being deserving of the Hall. Unfortunately, with some of the questionable choices that have been inducted in recent years, it may be a while before we see it, but hopefully it will happen one day.

Funny story about Bob and the spaghetti!

Happy Together has always been a favorite of mine, as has You Showed Me (great instrumentation!). Another track of theirs I've always liked is She's My Girl, although it seems very forgotten these days, at least as far as oldies radio is concerned.

I hadn't known that Mark and Howard were in the Mothers of Invention - interesting! I haven't heard much of their '70s work - is it more of a pop style, or more experimental?

I remember seeing an ad for one of their tours last year. Next time they perform near me, I'll have to check out their show.

Dawn, The best way to describe Flo & Eddie's style is "satirical". They do a lot of songs in styles similar to other artists, and throw in bits of humor here and there. Very different than The Turtles, but some of their songs ("This Could Be The Day", "Let Me Make Love To You") sound like they could have come out of the late 60's bubblegum period.

[Pete70s]

kenfrank said:

The Turtles are among my favorite 60's bands.I started collecting their 45's (and even a picture sleeve or two, back in the mid 80's.

Along with those tunes you already mentioned Pete, Outside Chance, You Baby , and the great album track She Always Leaves Me Laughing are also faves - there are so many.


I have a live bootleg CD a buddy gave me of Flo and Eddie from 1976 ( they were the opening act for Frank Zappa). It is very, very good and by the audience response - they were very well recieved.

Ken, do you know what songs are on that bootleg?

[Pete70s]

h2izcool said:

I've always liked these guys. They don't get the credit they desrve, and you never hear anything on oldies stations today except for Happy Together, which they overplay. They haven't been able to overplay it enough to get it off my top 250 though. You Know What I Mean is also in my top 250. - and their version of It Ain't Me Babe is my favorite among the three versions I know (the others being Johnny Cash and Spaghetti Face himself.) She's My Girl is also right up there.

I own a bunch of their White Whale 45s and their Greatest Hits album.

Didn't know you were so fond of "You Know What I Mean", Ed. It's one of my favorite Turtles songs (quite possibly my #1) due to it's unusual structure, dynamic vocal range, and the fact that so much is crammed into a song that's only 2 minutes long.

[Pete70s]

dave910 said:

Yo Pete,

I also recall an obscure 45, "Guide for the Married Man", which was apparently the theme to a movie of the same name. I would love to own some Turtles or Flo & Eddie stuff on CD! Yes, they too deserve to be in the rock and roll hall of fame.

Dave, I have the "Solid Zinc" double CD anthology, and the "Best of Flo & Eddie"CD. I'll loan them to you next time I see you.

[H2IZCOOL]

pete70s said:

h2izcool said:

I've always liked these guys. They don't get the credit they desrve, and you never hear anything on oldies stations today except for Happy Together, which they overplay. They haven't been able to overplay it enough to get it off my top 250 though. You Know What I Mean is also in my top 250. - and their version of It Ain't Me Babe is my favorite among the three versions I know (the others being Johnny Cash and Spaghetti Face himself.) She's My Girl is also right up there.

I own a bunch of their White Whale 45s and their Greatest Hits album.

Didn't know you were so fond of "You Know What I Mean", Ed. It's one of my favorite Turtles songs (quite possibly my #1) due to it's unusual structure, dynamic vocal range, and the fact that so much is crammed into a song that's only 2 minutes long.

Pete! You mean you didn't memorize my post of May 17, 2004.

h2izcool said:

184. You Know What I Mean – The Turtles (1967, #12) Tremendously underrated song. Very clever lyrics in which the singer is too shy to say what he really means. Great guitar work, fine orchestration, beautiful vocals. The only thing this needed, IMO, was another verse. It was too short.

I am terribly hurt! ;D

[Pete70s]

h2izcool said:

pete70s said:

Didn't know you were so fond of "You Know What I Mean", Ed. It's one of my favorite Turtles songs (quite possibly my #1) due to it's unusual structure, dynamic vocal range, and the fact that so much is crammed into a song that's only 2 minutes long.

Pete! You mean you didn't memorize my post of May 17, 2004.

h2izcool said:

184. You Know What I Mean – The Turtles (1967, #12) Tremendously underrated song. Very clever lyrics in which the singer is too shy to say what he really means. Great guitar work, fine orchestration, beautiful vocals. The only thing this needed, IMO, was another verse. It was too short.

I am terribly hurt! ;D

Sorry Ed, my memory isn't what it used to be. My God, 2004.. I'm luck if I remember posts from last year! ;D

[H2IZCOOL]

pete70s said:

h2izcool said:

Pete! You mean you didn't memorize my post of May 17, 2004.



I am terribly hurt! ;D

Sorry Ed, my memory isn't what it used to be. My God, 2004.. I'm luck if I remember posts from last year! ;D

Oh, I didn't remember it, Pete. I went back to page 36 or something on the make a list board. ;D

[alandhopewell]

dave910 said:

Yo Pete,

I also recall an obscure 45, "Guide for the Married Man", which was apparently the theme to a movie of the same name. I would love to own some Turtles or Flo & Eddie stuff on CD! Yes, they too deserve to be in the rock and roll hall of fame.

I remember seeing "Guide" when it came out, 1968. It starred Walter Matthau, Robert Morse, and Inger Stevens, with a bunch of all-star cameos.

[Ken]

pete70s said:

kenfrank said:

The Turtles are among my favorite 60's bands.I started collecting their 45's (and even a picture sleeve or two, back in the mid 80's.

Along with those tunes you already mentioned Pete, Outside Chance, You Baby , and the great album track She Always Leaves Me Laughing are also faves - there are so many.


I have a live bootleg CD a buddy gave me of Flo and Eddie from 1976 ( they were the opening act for Frank Zappa). It is very, very good and by the audience response - they were very well recieved.

Ken, do you know what songs are on that bootleg?

Hi Pete!

Yes I do, here is the tracklisting - the album Moving Targets had just been released.

1.Intros
2.Cheap
3.A KISS Concert?
4.It Ain't Me Babe
5.World's Best Possible Me
6.Kama Sutra Time
7.Eddie, Are You Kidding?
8.Elenore
9.Band Introductions
10.Wings Over Detroit
11.Bernie & The Jets
12.There's No Business
13.Buddy Miles vs Carlos Santana
14.Peter The Nose (Frampton Parody)
15.Pop Star Sucker
16.Keep It Warm
17.Moving Targets
18.Do You Like My New Car?
19.Happy Together
20.The Complete Score To Tommy